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Nigel Farage and His UKIP Party Win Big in Britain Once More

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Editorial


Saturday, May 04, 2013


Nigel Farage and His UKIP Party Win Big in Britain Once More

By Anthony Wile


Big news.
 
Drudge is featuring the news prominently ? and it is certainly noteworthy. It looks like British voters are going to have a choice once more. Bully for them.
 
Picking between Labour and the Tories over the past decades (post-Thatcher) has probably been a painful process for British voters, as it has not been clear what the Tories actually stand for.
 
One could hold one's nose and vote, and apparently many did just that. As a result, today, the Tories rule with aid of the Left.
 
It's a little bit as if US Republicans kept hold on power with an assist from the US Socialist Party. It makes no sense, but then again, British voters are used to their politics not making much sense.
 
They haven't really had a choice since Margaret Thatcher was unceremoniously booted out of power by her own party for opposing greater integration with the European Union.
 
Say what?
 
That's right! The Tories, a party of nationalism and conservatism, booted their own beloved leader out of office for not being sufficiently enthusiastic about merging Britain's identity with Europe.
 
And this despite polls that show British voters overwhelmingly do not want to be subject to the European experiment, resent the huge tithe to Brussels paid ever year and would be happy to be shed of the entire mess.
 
Thatcher anticipated and understood this larger sentiment and for this she was deposed, leaving the Tories wandering in the wilderness for many years to come.
 
This is not the accepted political history, of course, but it is the real narrative.
 
Tony Blair was the next major Labour figure and for a while "New Labour" was greeted enthusiastically by the British Left, including an irresponsible, lickspittle intellectual class that despised the idea of empowering rentiers, as Thatcher had done.
 
For this coalition, nothing but an expanded welfare state would do. Blair gave them a bit of that, but mostly what Blair gave Britain was war, following the lead of then-US president George Bush.
 
Much was made of the "special relationship" between the two countries, which in Blair's case seemed to consist of a willingness to commit troops to whatever battlefield George Bush selected.
 
Eventually ? though none too soon ? Blair lost popularity and credibility. He was replaced briefly by someone who was unpalatable even to the British Left, Gordon Brown ... a dour political grafter. Brown didn't last long. He was replaced by David Cameron.
 
Tony Blair ? thanks for small mercies ? has not had a comfortable retirement, though it has been a lucrative one. He works for big Wall Street houses but when he makes a speech, former constituents often show up to try to make citizens' arrests for war crimes.
 
The farce has continued within the British government, as well. Cameron is widely seen as inept even within his own party and has trouble enunciating what he actually stands for.
 
There is a huge vacuum in British politics that the classical liberal wing of English political philosophy used to occupy. This is an honorable tradition that surely continues to exert a powerful attraction.
 
Now we can see the evidence ... Enter UKIP to pick up the mantle of classical (libertarian) liberalism. Here's how SKY describes UKIP's latest victories.
 
Local Council Elections: UKIP Make Big Gains ... Nigel Farage claims a "sea of change in British politics" as his UK Independence Party marks its strongest electoral performance.
 
Many hundreds of seats were contested ... The UK Independence Party has made huge electoral gains and declared itself the "official opposition" - largely at the expense of the Tories - as Prime Minister David Cameron vowed to win back Conservative voters who had defected.
 
With UKIP averaging 26% of the vote in county council polls, leader Nigel Farage said he was "astonished" by the party's breakthrough, and put it down to what he described as the "total disconnect" between the "career politics" of Westminster and ordinary people on the streets. "UKIP is actually speaking the language of millions of ordinary voters," he told Sky News' Boulton & Co programme.
 
Speaking in his Oxfordshire constituency, Mr Cameron said he would "work really hard" to win back voters who switched support. The Conservative leader said all the mainstream political parties had "major lessons" to learn.
 
Lessons to learn, indeed. Am I alone in believing Cameron will not learn a single one? In fact, we wrote about gains the libertarian UKIP party was making some months ago:
 
Nigel Farage's Libertarian UKIP: New Victories in Eastleigh
 
As we have long predicted, what is happening in the US is happening in Britain. In the US, the political system is gradually splitting into a freedom wing and a state-controlled wing. And in Britain, thanks to UKIP, the same evolution is taking place.
 
UKIP, Britain's quasi-libertarian "third party" run by Nigel Farage, has proven victorious in Eastleigh, and that is big news. We just interviewed Farage here: Nigel Farage on the European Union, UKIP and Britain's Great Awakening.
 
We commented previously on UKIP's momentum here: Free-Market Thinking Advances in Britain.
 
We quoted The Daily Mail back in November 2012: "The UK Independence Party is now the main challenger to Labour in the North of England, leader Nigel Farage declared after his party surged in three by-elections. Mr Farage hailed UKIP's 'best-ever by-election result' after coming second in votes in Rotherham and Middlesborough, humiliating the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats who saw support collapse."
 
Britain is seeing the same sort of evolution as the US, in which voters who are fed up with the phony left/right paradigm are taking advantage of a small-state libertarian alternative. The real paradigm is freedom versus the state.
 
In England it is UKIP and in the US it is small-government wing of the Republican party, often referred to as the Tea Party. Nigel Farage heads the movement across the pond. Senator Rand Paul and his father Ron head the movement in the US.
 
Of course, Farage and Rand Paul are the leaders of a formalized "small government" movement. The grass-roots movement ? probably in both countries ? is a good deal more fevered and inchoate than that.
 
But in both countries, top elites have made every effort to tame the trend and bring it into some sort of alignment with regulatory democracy. And thus, even though people don't fully realize it yet, tomorrow's governments will likely be a good deal smaller than today's.
 
I'd be surprised if UKIP doesn't continue its current success. Britain is a wretchedly run country ... one evidently and obviously organized secretly by the City of London's banking interests. It is these interests that have been propelling Britain into the European Union and promoting various British wars, as well.
 
There is, of course, a temptation to proclaim that Farage is merely another controlled figure in endless political manipulations. But even so, this gives us a clue as to how the British political dialogue is evolving.
 
We've often written that thanks in large part to what we call the Internet Reformation, the globalist impulse of the 20th century would be blunted and redirected. Those leading the charge to a brave, new (internationalist) world would be forced to "take a step back" ? to the benefit of entrepreneurs and free markets everywhere.
 
Farage's success in Britain is similar to the success that libertarian-conservative political leader Ron Paul has had in the US. Though it is not readily acknowledged in the US mainstream press, the GOP is gradually being taken over once again by its libertarian/Reaganite wing.
 
Rand Paul and Nigel Farage are certainly the radical/accommodative politicians of the current power structure.
 
This power structure ? financial and internationalist in nature ? is as flexible as it is forceful. It uses a Hegelian dialectic to stay in control. But we have long predicted that even the most aggressive control mechanisms may fail in the current environment.
 
What is driving the current change ? in politics, as in the economy ? is probably the Internet itself. My personal bet is that the Internet (and the information it disseminates) is still not controllable and even the most strenuous efforts will prove insufficient.
 
Time will tell, of course. But here at the Daily Bell we often write that the Internet Reformation is "a process not an episode."
 
I have also suggested that we do, indeed, live in "interesting times."


Source--The Daily Bell


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the watcher

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May 4, 2013 ? 7:07 am



THE SATURDAY ESSAY: UKIP ? it?s easy when you don?t know how.
Source --The Slog


If you fancy Jeremy Hunt as Prime Minister, vote UKip
 
The last two days have been, without doubt, the best ever for UKip. They took a quarter of a national vote about local issues ? an excellent performance, and one that fits well with their general devolutionary story: ?UKIP stands for bringing back power to the people; for decisions made locally, not nationally; for common-sense policies that make people?s lives easier, and government that does what the people need, and no more?. I buy into those aims 100%. The only thing that?s missing is the chance for them to show how, with Council control, they can put their aims into practice. This is an important step when you consider what UKip promises to do, given the chance:
 
? Tax should be as low as possible.
 
? Protecting the greenbelt ? opposing wind farms and HS2.
 
? Cracking down on crime and anti-social behaviour.
 
? More police on the streets.
 
? Cutting council executives and managers, not front-line
 
services.
 
? Controlling immigration.
 
? Giving real decision-making to local communities
 
? Money for local services, not the EU
 
Lower local taxes, more police, less crime, firing fat-cats, power to the People. Very few people, in fact, would fail to salute those policies. But the truth is that, after polling a quarter of all the votes in a national election, UKip still hasn?t got a single Council to play with. In exactly the same was as, having been a part of political life in Britain for twenty years, it still hasn?t won a single seat.
 
Now there are two ways of answering that. First, the UKip line: ?The electoral system is unfair?; and second, the sceptic?s observation: ?So how has George Galloway done it twice in ten years, and you haven?t??
 
There too, UKip would argue that Galloway has just the one issue, and his supporters are concentrated in obvious boroughs. To which the sceptic?s response would be that UKip has one overriding aim ? withdrawal from the EU ? that is hugely attractive to older Tory voters and the dispossessed poor. In other words, there are around 40 Commons seats for the Party to keep an eye on, and take advantage of at by-elections. And over two decades, UKip hasn?t won a single one.
 
This remains, for me, a major worry about UKip: strategically, it?s not really on the ball. It doesn?t seem to have the ambition to rule that you?d expect. My second worry is that their policies are very how-would-you-like-it-to-be, rather than longer-term solutions to Britain?s balance of Government. Looking specifically again at the Local Elections Manifesto:
 
? Cut costs. ?We believe that council taxes should go down, not up, especially when times are tough and people are finding it hard to make ends meet. That means finding ways of delivering services more cost-effectively, not just automatically cutting service delivery?. Excellent. Tell us about the ?ways?.
 

? Improve services. ?Good management, partnership working and sensible planning, based on the single aim of working for local people rather than playing political games, can transform the way local government is delivered. Working with and energising volunteers and community groups can pay dividends. Ending EU open door immigration and putting local people first will ease the pressure that local services are under?. Er?hmm. So it?s all going to come from more sensibly managed, apolitical volunteers and fewer foreigners. I?m all for population control, but most of them are here already: there?s an awful lot of working, transforming and ending in there, but not a lot on how.
 

? Achieve consensus. ?UKIP is unique in local government, because we do not ?whip? our councillors to follow party diktats, or toe the party line. Instead, we expect our councillors to represent the wishes of their electors at all times.? Right. So you?re going to be a rabble. Fair enough.
 

? Stop the local government ?gravy train?. ?Council executives earning more than the Prime Minister, rising councillors? expenses, unnecessary departments doing politically-correct things like diversity monitoring, these are where we will cut, not at the front line or among the low-paid?. Whether it has any effect on the overall budget or not, I agree with all of this. I would even add that the deliberately political cutting of front-line necessity while continuing to look for maximal diversity outcomes is a classic Labour trick. But although what?s being suggested here ? take out the top tier of management entirely ? is admirable, it?s still a small proportion of total local government spending. The problem in local government is that it no longer gets much money from central government, because since 1970 Britain has been steadily going broke. Take out all the pc b####### and it will improve matters; but it won?t make big savings. There is no way to do that other than by reducing services. That?s reality.
 

? Preserve our communities. ?We don?t believe that councils have to stand by and just wave through the wishes of central government and big business. So we?ll stand up for local decision-making and fight proposals like unwanted housing developments, unwanted out-of-town supermarkets and inappropriate energy schemes like, incinerators, wind and solar farms that will ruin the character of our communities?. Well, you can mount as many barricades as you like ducky, these decisions are made on the basis of power, money, funny handshakes, and blatant corruption. I?m sure UKIppers would stand up and fight; and I?m equally sure it would make knob-all difference. The issue here is how to take away the power from big business and central government.  And without national power chaps, it ain?t gonna happen.
 

At the more general level of its local Manifesto, UKip does talk specifically about putting more police on the streets, tackling anti-social behaviour, and cracking down on crime. All this costs money ? big money. Firing the bigwigs at the top won?t cut it, lads. I?m not nit-picking here: I am trying to make a huge and serious point. Local government costs an enormous (and rising) amount of money because Whitehall is skint, and the British culture is going downhill on it?s way to Hell in a bucket. There are no easy answers to those simple facts: slash the cost of central government and restore social discipline, fine. That?s what we need. And that in turn means massive educational reform, plus somehow persuading folks brought up on decades of lax parenting and community selfishness that they should shape up and fly right.
 

That conclusion, in fact, leads directly into my third and biggest concern about UKip: it one has one wing. It is a Right Wing. It?s actually, when you get down to it, the Monday Club reborn in cavalry twill trousers down at the local George?s Cross Arms. It?s a very good Right Wing for the part, and I?ve got nothing against it. That?s the trouble, neither have they. It?s very hard to fly with one wing: even Hitler pretended to have two.
 

Now the last thing I?m suggesting is that UKip should bolt on some Socialism. Regular Sloggers must surely know by now that I think the entire left/right debate is a good half century behind the music. All I?m saying here is that without some form of socio-cultural philosphy, all a Party like UKip can do is promise. It can?t set out the why and how of it all. But then, that?s been my problem with Nigel Farage for over two years now: he doesn?t want a broader philosophy, because that would open a can crammed to the top with horribly wriggly worms. More to the point, Nigel doesn?t need one: he wants to shift UK politics further to what I would call the Independent Right. And let?s face it, the quick way to achieve that is to hoof out Camerlot and replace it with Borishunt-on-Fallongove.
 

Let?s look more closely at the national Manifesto for UKip. I think it might give us some clues.
 

The first thing one spots about UKip policies is that quite a few of them are either under review or discussion pieces. As one of these is immigration and another is tax, those are fairly big issues about which sceptics might require further guidance. But skipping the mere nit-picking detail of a sceptic, this is the Ukip Plan in outline?.and before you ask, unless the grammatical sense has been impaired, everything below is exactly word for word as per the link above to UKip literature.
 

* The EU. UKIP policy is to leave the European Union. Hurrah ? bring it on. Preferably before it implodes under its own weight anyway.
 

* Immigration. UKIP calls for an end to the age of mass, uncontrolled immigration. UKIP would introduce a five year freeze on immigration for permanent settlement (with some exceptions). Not here ? an end to ?the age of?, ?a five year freeze?, and ?with some exceptions?. This one is under review. As it?s always been a central plank of UKip policy, one wonders why. What we must do in the UK is stop all immigration, period: this alone will focus Government minds on the retraining of the workers we already have. The replacement of Media Studies with electrical engineering, domestic plumbing, and cabinet making would be a welcome start.
 

* Food & Farming. UKIP will implement policies to breathe new life into the rural economy and enhance the countryside. UKIP will use labelling and advertising campaigns to promote British produce and fairer food prices. This will replace the need for many subsidies. Change legislation to allow the formation of a greater number of producer co-operatives, putting food producers on a more equal footing with supermarket buyers. The first two sentences above are woffle, the third plainly wrong. The last one, however, is an excellent idea. Just don?t try selling it to the Tory Party.


* Tax. Taxation needs to be drastically reduced but only alongside equally drastic cuts in public spending. The main thrust of UKIP tax policy will be flat tax with high thresholds, for too long the tax entry level has been too low. The flat rate of 25% ensures people are motivated to work as hard and as long as they wish without seeing confiscatory levels of government tax. This is all, for me, too wishful ? and nowhere near radical enough. There is only one area of public spending still available for massive cuts: the size of the Civil Service and its pension arrangements?especially in Whitehall. A flat rate of 25% is still an income tax. Tax law should be an incentive to work hard and behave well. One?s income is one?s own affair; but if one uses wealth for anti-social ends, then one should be expected to pay a penalty. Multinational corporate tax avoidance is a disgrace, as are the legions of tax accountants who serve it. Both must be ended immediately. If the companies go elsewhere, fine. Fairness has to start somewhere.
 

* Health. The UK Independence Party is well aware of how highly the NHS is valued by the people of this country and has no plans to make fundamental changes to it. UKIP will direct the majority of health care spending to elected County Health Boards, making spending decisions directly accountable to the public locally, and dramatically cut the Department of Health, and bring in professional procurement skills to reduce the huge amounts of money wasted in procurement and resource allocation. Procurement is the only sensible policy in here. I?m afraid the NHS is in need of drastic change, the main one being to move it away from both government and private supply via mutualisation. County Health Boards will simply turn into yet another bloated quango full of Blimps. Mutualisation between the service and the community is the only viable answer at the moment. Don?t cut the Department for Health, abolish it.
 

* Small Business. UKIP supports small businesses and we will do all we can to provide the right framework to support SMEs. Small businesses are the backbone of a dynamic, entrepreneurial economy and society.  They are the innovators, creators and activists, people who take an idea and run with it in the marketplace. Again, fluffy statements of intent and admiration, but no real policy in sight.


You may have noticed by the way that ? beyond the vapours about SME businesses above ? UKip doesn?t have much to say about Globalism, the dominance of the City and financial services, and the free ride that most multinationals get in Britain. It also has nothing at all to offer us about making business British again, rather than just a motley crew of foreign employers at whose whim we will remain. But this is possibly unfair, in that just because there is no specific upfront Manifesto literature about it doesn?t mean UKip doesn?t have good ideas about that sort of stuff. So let?s get back to basics, and what for me should be the definitive UKip positioning statement: What We Stand For.
 

Unfortunately, the document at the link above contains more apple pie, soaring above the clouds, and Vera Lynn. Based on the specific approaches outlined above by UKip, the WWSF bit simply doesn?t stack up.
 

There are six headings in it:  Restore Self Government & Democracy, Rebuild Prosperity, Protect Our Borders & Defend Our Country, Safeguards Against Crime, Care And Support For All, and Our Way Of Life. I?m disappointed that Time Travel, Cold Fusion, A Jag in every garage and Free Beer on Sundays were left out of the policy grab-bag, but you can?t have everything. The following should, however, serve as guidance ? with my comments it italics as before.
 


Abolish the EU?s bureaucratic VAT and replace it with a local sales tax to support Local Government finance and to make it accountable at the ballot box. Give the public power to require binding local and national referenda on major issues. Not sure that many SMEs will want a local sales tax. I?d also imagine that whether one makes such a tax ?accountable at the ballot box?, the usual activists will still vote in the usual suspects in local government, for whom such a tax would be manna from Heaven?but inflationary, and bad for the retail economy. The Dictatorship of the Proletariat in the last bit there is a terrible idea: we need leaders that lead, not government by TV-button. And the plural of referendum is referendums.
 
We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy. EU ?renewable? energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Scrap all green taxes and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas. Cut taxes on small businesses and abolish the  Employers? National Insurance. Yes, we must cut down on Government and no, we will not simply be able to remove ENI. Yes, we should follow the nuclear route but no, we shouldn?t be using uranium simply because a foreign company, EDF, wants to do that. Yes, we should be looking for a form of solar power beyond nuclear, but that?s not in there. Shame really ? it should be.
 
The State must defend its peoples. Keep our nuclear deterrent and make increased defence spending a clear priority, even in these difficult times, to underpin Britain?s global role. Keeping the nuclear deterrent is unaffordable and has been for decades: it is also pointless given existing delivery technology is already making missiles redundant. And Britain doesn?t have a global role, so FFS get over it.
 
No cuts to front line policing. Make sentences mean what they say ? life must mean life. Double prison places to enforce zero tolerance on crime. Just a couple of small points here: prison doesn?t work, prisoner reform does; doubling prison places and giving the police more money isn?t possible if you want to cut down on government.
 
Assure for all people prompt and caring treatment in ill health. Launch partnerships with the private and charity sectors to increase efficiency and choice and bring in health care vouchers for those who wish to opt out of the NHS. End the 50% university target for school leavers , scrap tuition fees and reintroduce student grants. Please, no more ?choice? b#######: people with no money have no choice, and they never will. And please, no more partnerships with the private sector ? that?s how the NHS got to its current state of deep debt. Scrapping University fees in favour of grants is a great idea, but where?s the money coming from? The most important factor has been overlooked here: higher standards to ensure that only the brightest go to University. Then everything else falls into place.
 
Our traditional values have been undermined.  Children are taught to be ashamed of our past.  Multiculturalism has split our society.  Political correctness is stifling free speech. End the ban on smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels. Hold County wide referenda on the hunting ban. Well, I?m ashamed of our past. I?m ashamed of how, before the Welfare State, the poor died young and their kids left school at 13. I?m even more ashamed of the fact that we are rapidly going back to where we were ? although I?m not even remotely Left Wing. I agree on the smoking thing, although I think you?d lose. The Hunting Ban is a complex issue upon which we have already wasted far too much legislative time. It?s a mess, but not that important in the greater scheme of things.
 
???????????????????.
 
Let me sum up here, if I may. I think UKip isn?t a radical forward-looking Party, I think it?s a place for people who want to undo and go backwards. I think that, far from being classless, it is a middle-class business Party. But above all, I think it is mainly peopled by folks who don?t like Wet Conservatives, and do like making money. That?s why Boris is licking them all over at the moment. That?s why Murdoch summoned Nigel Farage to his apartment some weeks ago. And that?s why, like a prat, Farage scuttled round there ? toute vitesse.
 
Nigel isn?t a radical, and neither are his mates. And UKip isn?t going anywhere except into the Tory Party. I mean the Tory Party ? not the one-nation Conservative Party as was. UKip is not a long-term answer to any of Britain?s real problems: it?s just another even bigger rear-view mirror, and we?ve already got four Parties using that thing. UKip is not a change-the-culture Party on social, economic, trade and financial bases: it?s a Party that drivels on about small government and more police and fewer bureaucrats and working 12-hour days and being a global power.
 
I suggested earlier that UKip is a bird with one wing, and that it will never fly. But as of last Thursday, the United Kingdom Independence Party is a slightly more powerful, albeit ageing, animal: it is in fact a Trojan Horse designed to get Nigel Farage a seat in the Cabinet, and a free hand for the business interests already working hard to install Borishunt-on-Fallongove. It is a multiply-flogged carthorse fit largely for the glue factory, but transformed by perfidious Establishment blindness into a growing force in our politics. It isn?t what we need, but I rather fear it is what we?re going to get.
 
If your response to this essay is ?So what would you do smartarse??, the answer is at this link?.and has been for some time.
 
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118 Comments

Filed under UKIP ANALYSIS: Why Nigel Farage is flogging a Trojan Horse

Tagged as Britain doesn't need another rear view mirror, Look out of Borishunt-on-Fallongove, Nigel Farage wants to be in the Cabinet, Nigel Farage would be good as Minister for Pubs, UKip is a Trojan Horse, UKip is a wong of the Conservative Party, UKip is muddled and vague








118 Responses to THE SATURDAY ESSAY: UKIP ? it?s easy when you don?t know how.


Max the Impaler

 May 4, 2013 at 7:46 am


Can?t agree with all of that?but what I am sure of is this, we have to get rid of these useless LibLabCon wet w#####s. This country,as you correctly state has been going bankrupt since the ?70s. We need to return to high value manufacturing,promote and finance our best designers and entrepreneurs and if to do that we have to smash the beaurocratic quango driven arseholes that have a death grip on this country?.so be it.
 
Reply


BillK

 May 4, 2013 at 7:53 am


The LibLabCon crowd have ruined the country. The Liberals only did well in the last election because people were desperate to get away from Labour and Conservatives.
 So what actual alternative do people have now? It is UKIP or the Monster Raving Loony party. Better vote for UKIP then.
 
Reply


nigelpwsmith

 May 4, 2013 at 9:17 am


Not really surprising that UKIP polled so many votes when the Government motivated all people on benefits to vote against them. Like turkeys voting for Christmas. Quel surprise!
 Conservatives are seen as responsible for much of the present hardship.
 Labour are seen as causing the problem in the first place.
 Liberals are seen as protecting the Conservatives as they rape the public.
 Monster Raving Looney Party are seen as?.. well just loonies!
 Respect are seen as raving Trotskies who should be shipped to a Gulag! BNP are seen as raving nazis, who should be shipped to a concentration camp run by Nigerians!
 Who?s left?.. UKIP, alright then, lets vote UKIP!
 





aflatoxin

 May 4, 2013 at 1:24 pm


@Max +1
 
Britain has some wonderfully inventive people who dont get a look-in under the status quo.
 
Reply

 


Doug McGregor

 May 4, 2013 at 8:00 am


Galloway is not the model here , try looking at the SNP / Salmond way of achieving power. Also , Farage himself has said that he sees them in the position of the SDP in the eighties who went on to usurp the Labour party from within. Whatever causes our useless governing class discomfort , i?m for it, bring it on!
 
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Capt Yossarian

 May 4, 2013 at 8:01 am


Excellent article JW, crystallizing my own doubts and suspicions about UKIP.
 
I offer one additional piece of deconstruction and that is nuclear power will not ?end dependence on fossil fuels? as extraction, refining, transportation and processing of fissile material is highly fossil fuel dependent.
 
Reply


Johnnyrvf

 May 4, 2013 at 10:13 am


Yes, good point, however when L.T.F.R.?s come on line and have no doubt they will, the amount of mining for the base fuel will be drastically reduced, China and India are going flat out to develop this technology and France is beginning to realize it?s national pride could be in for a bashing if it does not start researching Thorium fueled reactors, the best fission solution until ?hot? Fusion is online, which I.T.E.R. when operational will demonstrate.
 
Reply


FrenchNews (@FrenchNewsonlin)

 May 4, 2013 at 4:32 pm


France has done a fair amount of thorium research at Grenoble (see here http://bit.ly/115v85a) but its true it has let the ball slip and China and India are now leading the way.However the interest and expertise remains.
 





Mr Meek

 May 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm


Nuclear power wont end dependance on fossil fuels but ?Cold fusion? will.
 
As for UKIP , well I agree with a lot of Johns comments, but people will vote for them anyway. What other choice is there? The three traditional parties all answer to the same powers above, whilst attempting to divide and conquer the masses to keep control.
 At least Farage isnt party to that corruption yet as he regularly demonstrates in th EU assembly hall by telling the bueracrats exactly what he thinks of them (common criminals) which I heartily approve of!!

Cameron, Clegg and Milliband are all part of the NWO ?Plan? so they say very little against EU officials.
 
As for Cameron saying he will try and win us over again I am reminded of an exchange between Captain Blackadder and General Melchett in Blackadder goes Forth.
 
Gnrl Melchett ?We are looking for ways to lift the mens moral??
 Cptn Blackadder ?Your immediate resignation and suicide might be a good place to start.?
 
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Doug McGregor

 May 4, 2013 at 8:06 am


Incidentally , i have read your manifesto and pretty much agree with it all. However ,as you acknowledge , how is it to be implemented ?When all the bones are chucked up in the air , who knows what chances there will be to rearrange them,
 
Reply



GrahamD

 May 4, 2013 at 8:14 am


I would like to see the UK to be as far away as possible from the Eurozone Time-Bomb when it goes off. I agree that the chances of us not getting badly caught in the flack are a big fat zero, but the present Conservative policy of (Non) Negotiation and waiting until after 2015, is akin to standing astride the aforesaid bomb and thumb twiddling, while listening out for the ticking to stop.
 
Hence, I will continue to ignore local or other national issues, on which I can agree with JW, that many UKIP present policies are little more than waffle, but I will still put my cross beside their candidate?s name at every voting opportunity. I promise that I will continue to do this until a politician of some party, (any party), gives the people of the UK, the much promised but never delivered, informed debate on and then referendum on, our continued European Union membership.
 
Mr Cameron can only neutralise UKIP by announcing a Referendum during the remainder of this Parliament. (Sorry Lib Dems, but your Pro EU policy will equal wipeout in 2015). CamMoron should also understand that his two main desires, firstly to get re-elected in 2015 and secondly to keep the UK in Europe, are entirely and utterly incompatible and therefore, he will continue to loose credibility (and votes) hand over fist, until he changes one of these aims, (or someone else changes them for him.)
 
Therefore if the Tory Party wished to have any hope at all, they would do well to see the UKIP EU agenda off of the UK political map well before the 2015 election. ?.and I for one will continue to do my very best to frighten 30 Millbank into ?Split-vote-itus?, until the day when I can put my cross on an EU Referendum Paper.
 
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kfc1404

 May 4, 2013 at 8:34 am


?until the day when I can put my cross on an EU Referendum Paper.?
 Me too but, TBH, I?m not sure we will ever get the opportunity, for many reasons, the greatest one being, that I don?t believe any more that there is any party that has any intention whatsoever of allowing us to vote on our membership of the EU. The only way out for anybody is for the whole edifice to come crashing down, and we all have too many assets for that to happen in the near future, when they have stolen every last thing of value that we own and there is nothing more to take from us, then it will end.
 
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Save Penrhos

 May 4, 2013 at 8:19 am


In the Anglesey County Council elections UKIP did not fare so well coming in with 7.3% pf the vote. UKIP are still seen in Wales (and Scotland) very much as an ?English? party.
 
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zeusgoose

 May 4, 2013 at 8:24 am


Completely off topic but its Easter here in Greece this w/end so I thought I would post this story?
 
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/05/03/the-funniest-greek-easter-story-ever/
 
Καλό Πάσχα! to all the Greek readers here.
 
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alant

 May 4, 2013 at 8:12 pm


Χρόνια Πολλά, Καλή Ανάσταση, shame it?s not Samaras, Benny, et al on the spit??
 
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kfc1404

 May 4, 2013 at 8:24 am


I cannot disagree with any of that but, also I cannot face another decade or so, of the ?Same old, Same old b####### that (insert party of choice here) keeps dishing out while we wait for someone with some real vision and leadership ability to come along. The present incumbents of Westminster need to be removed, for good, our good.
 I think at best all we can hope for is that UKIP will force some small changes in the way the Govt. behaves. We are, to a certain extent witnessing that now with Cameron promising to bring forward the referendum, not that it will make a scrap of difference as there will be a suitable distraction manufactured when the time comes. Maybe that distraction has already begun, I read this morning that Israel has attacked Syria, are we seeing the beginnings of WW3 in the making?
 
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London Girl

 May 4, 2013 at 9:30 am


KFC: WW3 : oh no, I seem to remember from my childhood that we will all have to rush and buy brown paper and hide under the kitchen table?
 
So does this mean that while our wonderful leaders twiddle their thumbs (or whatever it is they twiddle) over Europe and the continued cataclysmic decline of our country, all worry on that score is rendered pointless as some towel-head conflagration will do for us one way or the other anyway?
 
Soddit, I?m going out for a full English breakfast
 
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kfc1404

 May 4, 2013 at 10:03 am


Might well be?..who knows? Oh, I would wouldn?t worry about the brown paper, and the kitchen table, does anybody have a house big enough for a kitchen table these days?
 





groundedkiwi

 May 4, 2013 at 10:05 am


Kfc no just the same old story. War may break out, oil goes up along with the demand for the dollar.
 
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wearedoomed

 May 4, 2013 at 10:40 am


@kfc
 You got it!
 WAS
 
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john griffiths

 May 4, 2013 at 8:30 am


Brill john. I was a founder member of a UKIP branch to find that it was in my opinion a totalitarian party not libertarian party. It is not interested in what it members wanted as long as they collected funds and help put selected people like Neil Hamilton in as a MEP.. They would not mention Common purpose and the local area controller threaten any one with expulsion if it was brought up which was unusual as previously he had stated it did not exist. Not allowed to talk about agenda 21 although Lord Monckton has bee trying to warn of this already adopted agenda of world control and genocide.
 Also John 1.6 trill was transferd to the ECB from the federal reserve in feb are these the funds which you were taking about in euroblown.(will forward article when I can find it.)
 
New kid on the block my be worth a look Left unity. at least it asking the members what they would like a new party to stand for.
 Kind Regards
 
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Morningstar

 May 5, 2013 at 10:38 am


The problem is that too many of these issues sound ?fruitcakeish? if brought up in ?sheeple land? and the media is all to willing to give the ?loonatic? spin to anything which is outside of the establishment ?arena?. However the fake charities scam is pretty well realised out in ?sheeple land? which is the very reason why (and Godfrey Bloom talked about it on the BEEB today) they intend to deal with ?fake charities? of which CP is one.
 
It is a hard walk to be able to come away with anything if you are not into ?bubble speak? and so a fine line has to be tread. Those of us who know about many of these issues have to look sidelong at what is actually being said and take the perspective view of the discussion.
 
Some people cannot do this as they are (rightly) so concerned about the issue. But politics is a game of words when dealing with an imbedded and contented cartel of the powerful influences in society from media through government and International corporates.
 
One thing is for sure. The word ?fruitcake? is going to become an oft used expression in the political realm (by those who are not) for the foreseable?. what a shame :)
 
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dee

 May 4, 2013 at 8:30 am


Even after suffering a humiliating blow at the hands of UKIP, the ?idiot? aka Cameron still isn?t listening. Whatever you say John, we the people prefer his way than that of the mainstream parties. I want an end to immigration and I want out of Europe, end of:
 
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john griffiths

 May 5, 2013 at 8:40 am


That?s the problem divide and rule we are all one. That is why the Italian 5 star party have real people in their parliament they encouraged left and right to form a party. i suppose if we all really wanted out of the EU we could have a general strike. .I believe Left unity are endorsing the 5 star movement..
 
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lady in red 3951

 May 4, 2013 at 8:37 am


I think you underestimate the mood in the country.
 The talking shop has expired and people realise that they have to vote with their feet. The choice in 2015 will be Labour or UKIP. Labour will take it.
 
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Me again

 May 4, 2013 at 9:37 am


Given the choice of voting for the ?old parties? or UKIP I will vote UKIP every time. Why? Because if we don?t keep trying there?s no hope of change. So it really doesn?t matter if Labour get in or the Tories and I don?t care if people say ?you let labour in? because they are all the same, they?re all europhillic.
 
As Winston said, We just have to keep buggering on??
 
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wearedoomed

 May 4, 2013 at 10:42 am


Ditto
 





aflatoxin

 May 4, 2013 at 1:22 pm


@LIR I suspect it?ll need a coalition of LIbdems and Labour to take it. And the Libdems will be ready to coalesce having realised the mistake of the ConDems and infuriated all those closet red supporters.
 
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Morningstar

 May 5, 2013 at 10:53 am


I think that you will find the 2014 immigration influx will have quite another scale of impact com January next year. No guestimate is announced because they are afraid of the reaction. However, the reality will hit home and even more peoples children will be searching for jobs which will not be there for UK youth. The supermarkets are taking on loads of EU immigrants (above UK youth) in order that the government can pretend that they are all coming to work and paying taxes (without mentioning all of the benefits they still get to claim for working in low paid jobs and cash for kids programs). Corporates are in league with government to promote the illusion of the good immigration argument. But we still have a lack of housing, food production and a failing energy supply which cannot possibly sustain any growth in numbers to this country. Inflation is being pumped whilst for at least two years now ?weather conditions? has been pumped out on the media as the reason why food prices are rising. Taxpayer money is being used to try to re-inflate the housing price bubble and subsidise an industry which helps finance the governing party??. it is corrupt and stupid policy, which will in the end prove to be unsustainable. just how hard the crash is going to be when it arrives is an unknown quantity. but the longer we have the numpties trying to protect themselves rather than putting the good of the most foremost??? the harder the fall is going to be.
 






Old Soldier

 May 4, 2013 at 8:42 am


Excellent essay, John.
 
I will be voting for UKIP in every election until we leave the EU or until it collapses. If the Conservatives want my vote, they will have to grant a referendum on the EU as a certainty.

Not PROMISE or CONSIDER or any of the other Cameronian lies and delaying tactics.
 
I say this in full knowledge of the uselessness of all politicians, and the low likelihood of anything changing as a result of my vote.
 
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Bemused

 May 4, 2013 at 8:43 am


UKip policies are little more than waffle and good intentions? Well I for one will take that anytime when the alternative is the lies, threats, empty promises, fear mongering and nudge nudge manipulation from the big three. As far as I can see the UKip policies have as much meat on the bones as the big three party policies, none of whom explain how either.
 Then again why waste time thinking and explaining when you have no intention of implementing, never mind engaging with the people.
 I am sure you could deconstruct all the political party?s policies in a similar style to the above if you wanted to.
 
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wearedoomed

 May 4, 2013 at 10:51 am


@Bemused
 Agreed. For the first time I think JW is perhaps Befuddled (and clearly I am not a sycophant as pfgpowell thinks we all are and I trust JW will not take offence)?but change has to start SOMEWHERE and good old Nigel is the only one advocating it (but I am not overlooking the Boris-am-Bollox angle).
 Show me ONE other MEP who has stood up in SproutCentral and pointed out what a bunch of the very things that they are ( as confirmed daily on the Slog?).
 WAD
 
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aflatoxin

 May 4, 2013 at 1:31 pm


As an MEP Farage?s record is impeccable. Unfortunately, were UKIP ever to gain any power here, he would rapidly become the tart of TPTB like the rest of the political shower we now have to suffer.
 






Tony Wicks

 May 4, 2013 at 8:46 am


JW, what are you trying to do with these anti-UKIP pieces? As I read through this one ? complete with the ?licking all over? trope you put in the last one ? I?m thinking yes John but what are you offering instead? Some of us are desperately clinging to UKIP as the only hope of change. You?re trying to destroy that hope. You?re kind of like Jesus in reverse. I mean, you might be right, but if you are, where does that get us?
 
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Mark

 May 4, 2013 at 11:06 am


There is no hope the foolish British people are waking up far too late, the country is already ruined and the tipping point has already been passed.
 It really doesn?t matter which party wins from now on the battle is already lost. Soon the British are going to be a minority in their own country and ruled as a province of Brussels. There is absolutely nothing barring violent revolution that they can now do about it. They should have paid more attention 40 years ago, they didn?t and now the bill is arriving and they must pay and will pay. There is no point in getting upset about any of this everyone will simply have to make the best of the bum deal the politicians left to their own devices have created. The future may not be very bright but at least it wont be dull.
 
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Mo

 May 4, 2013 at 12:35 pm


+10. But they seem to be waking up though, don?t they? I think it was a defining moment, a start, at least.
 Ukip may not stay the course, as Farage has said that, ?He doesn?t want Power, just influence.? There are many in his party who may not be satisfied with that, so things may change there.
 We may be doomed, but as they say, it isn?t over until the fat lady sings.
 As Churchill said,?We may have yet to fight when there is no hope of victory, for it is better to perish than to live as slaves?.
 






groundedkiwi

 May 4, 2013 at 8:51 am


TPTB will always have an alternative waiting in the wings.
 
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dee

 May 4, 2013 at 8:53 am


Tony I agree with a lot John says but not this time. UKIP will grow and learn and they have a couple of years to do it, the idiot AKA Cameron doesn?t.
 
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Tony Wicks

 May 4, 2013 at 11:41 am


I also agree with a lot of what JW writes, which is why his stance on UKIP is so disappointing. As is this statement: ?The Dictatorship of the Proletariat in the last bit there is a terrible idea: we need leaders that lead, not government by TV-button? ? would we have gone to war in Iraq if us plebs could have voted on it? No. We did though, didn?t we ? because of our then glorious leader, who led us into it!
 
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Peter C

 May 4, 2013 at 8:53 am


Yes, John, pie-in-the-sky manifesto, no clear policy, vague promises and vapid hopes, but the possibility of some good policies if what they say is actually true, I agree entirely. However, you miss the fundamental and essential point, your criticisms apply just as well to any other party and even more so in respect of the LibLabCon. Manifestos are not and rarely ever have been anything other than advertising, a sales pitch.
 
The important thing is not whether Farage and Co may or may not do any good, whether they have real policies or not, whether their sums add up or not, the important thing is that the post war political/governing class has utterly failed, worse they have ruined almost everything they touch. There were two periods when Britain could have been great again, the 1960s when the global economy took off and the Thatcher years where a combination of the oil bonanza, encouraging enterprise and shoving off the dead hand off government could have seen the UK resurgent, but the political class f*****d it up both times.
 
We know that the current political class like their predecessors are provenly incompetent and inadequate, we can also be confident that they are not going to improve. It may well be that Farage and Co haven?t a clue but it would be better to give them the benefit of the doubt in the hope they do get it right than keep on voting in self-serving idiots that we know can?t.
 
As most respondents here have said, in my view anyone but the LibLabCon is worth a chance.
 
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Mo

 May 4, 2013 at 12:37 pm


+10
 
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alexei

 May 4, 2013 at 4:58 pm


@Peter C and others -
 Agreed 100% with you and perfectly encapsulated. It would seem to be UKIP or the abyss for GB plc but how long will it take for a majority of the public to find the courage to dare to change their voting habits, since people fear the unknown?
 And for those hanging on to the possibility a scared Cameron will offer an early EU referendum, do they seriously believe there will be no manipulation in the run-up, or even in the result? If he is the ?tool? of TPTB (as are most current western leaders), an ?Out? result would not be tolerated.
 
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Trader

 May 4, 2013 at 9:05 am


I think you are being too hard on UKip. Yes they are not perfect and yes much of their policy is wishful woffle but we have tried the the alternatives and they don?t work. It is nice to have someone at least pointing in almost the right direction and like many others here , they will get my vote until there is a better alternative.
 
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MaxC

 May 4, 2013 at 10:03 am


@Trader +1.
 Also, as Farage has hinted, they are not trying to be a party of government but a catalyst for change. On that score, so far so good. Keep it up UKIP and well done those who voted for them.
 Plus, JW, UKIP?s manifesto was always going to be both pie in the sky (no hope of getting into government anyway) and half-cocked (?cos they don?t have access to the inner machinations of Westminster). Add to that the fact the every party?s manifesto is 100% B.S. we have to ask ?so what??
 
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wearedoomed

 May 4, 2013 at 11:00 am


@MaxC
 My thoughts exactly. I truly believe that a ?catalyst for change? is our only hope so I shall vote UKip until that change happens.
 JW blogged recently that we were sleepwalking to the cliff edge?well, somnambulism is not for me and it seems that 25% of those who actually voted have ?woken up?.
 Doing nothing is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
 Vote UKip and eff you see kay TPTB
 WAD
 




Bemused

 May 4, 2013 at 1:52 pm


@max
 I feel quite heartened that Farage wants influence not power. Didn?t a wise man once say something along the lines of anyone who covets power should be disqualified from ever having power?
 




Morningstar

 May 5, 2013 at 11:10 am


@MaxC
 
Actually the mainstream piddle which has been dribbled out for ever is that any new party could never get elected under first past the post (in fact it was touted again this morning of the BEEB.
 
However, the truth is that the only truth in this statement is that should (for example) UKIP get even 50% (probably much less) of the vote in any constituency it is a 99%+ chance that they would win the seat.
 
Thus if people vote for them ? they CAN be elected and they could form a government. The polls in the last few months were touted at between 8 & 14% support ? yet in the REAL EVENT they managed 25%. Just an increase of 7% could see them as the biggest party in Westminster.
 
The role of the MSM and all ?interested? voices will be to purvey UKIP as a party which can at the best achieve a minimal voice (or if they are lucky, influence a few marginal seats). But this delusion must be countered with the democratic fact, that if enough people vote for them, (and no core vote is any longer secure) ? they can become the majority or governing party.

This is a simple fact when we get to vote for a government. The only answer to it will be to impose a government or scam an election. Neither of which I would discount from those who govern at this moment in time.
 






Andy

 May 4, 2013 at 9:05 am


I thought UKIP?s performance was amazing and it just shows how pissed off the electorate are. The Coalition has been a disappointment partly (I accept) that they were dealt a much poorer hand than many of us realised ? the last Labour Government should all be put on trial ? and I can see the mess will take a generation and more to sort out, if ever. Then they have been unlucky, the Eurozone mess being an example. But it has also shown the LibDems as inherently dishonest and dishonourable ? the boundary review being the prime example.
 
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Mark

 May 4, 2013 at 1:17 pm


I think the electorate will quickly get over it after all the X Factor is on tonight and only 21% could be bothered to turn out and vote anyway (if you include the dodgy postal votes). As for putting the last Labour Government on trial its a great idea but the only thing that?s realistically going to happen is that there going to be put back into office.

Its really not worth getting upset about all of this as its already too late. Just enjoy the chaos and have a good laugh as the whole thing goes belly up and civil war breaks out (that?s assuming anybody can be bothered).
 Failing that just sit back and enjoy the benefits of a failed state.
 
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aflatoxin

 May 4, 2013 at 1:40 pm


I tend to agree. Though civil war will be no laughing matter if it?s anything like that under Cromwell: just watch all those ?Levellers? shut up when faced with tasers and drones.
 






dee

 May 4, 2013 at 9:11 am


I?m sick of hearing about the mess Labur left, yes they did, but we must move on, UKIP is the answer, I am not expecting Farage to be the next PM but he will force the?idiot? to act, unless the ?idiot? is way too stupid to wake up and smell the future. UKIP get my vote.
 
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Salford Lad

 May 4, 2013 at 9:15 am


The Parliament at Westminster has very little power these days .it is irrelevant in the scheme of things. The ordinary apolitical voter in the street is aware of this because of the circus ensued by the attempts to remove Abu Qatada from the country. Time and again the Home Secretary Theresa May has been overridden by the EU judges at Strasbourg using European Human Rights Law.
 The real power resides in the EU and its numerous pressure groups controlled by Big Business interests. The kingpin of it all is the unelected Mario Draghi who controls the European Central Bank(ECB) on behalf of the Bank of International Settlements (BIS)
 Those who control the money issuance control the Power. The Central banks control the money supply. Governments are nothing more than oversized County Councils and have been since the beginning of the European Parliament.
 To regain our Sovereignity we must exit the EU. The Westminster Parliament must seize control of the issue of its currency which it has ceded to the Banking cartel. Only then can it have control over its economy and destiny.
 If UKIP is the tool that can be used to pressure the present GOVT to exit the EU, then for all UKIP imperfections we should support it as much as we can.
 
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Me again

 May 4, 2013 at 9:16 am


Accuracy, clarity and brevity. Missed on the first [central government funding of councils 64%] and last, fell asleep for the middle bit.
 
You have missed the point and the boat John. The number of people joining UKIP now is fairly divided between ?never voted, never saw anything worth voting for?, ?used to vote but haven?t bothered for a while because there was no change when I did?. Both similar outlooks. Plus former Labour now fed up, a small but rising number, plus former Tory, disdusted with current Tories.
 The left/right thing is anachronistic and very MSM. You also can?t say that 25% of the vote in South Shields were former Tories who protested can you? Commonsense is the aim.
 
The policies used to be complex [under David Campbell Bannerman] and really just Tory, They have relaxed a little, sometimes the exact ?How? is not readily visible but as a general idea they hit the mark in all the policy areas.
 
A question. How many Labour and tory governments have come into power with their carefully costed ?accountancy certified? manifestos, and then thrown them away on day 1 when the reality hits?
 
All, I suspect. So is there any point in in doing it or is it just going through the motions so that armchair accountants MSM and enemies can pull it apart?
 
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MaxC

 May 4, 2013 at 10:05 am


@me again. +1
 
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groundedkiwi

 May 4, 2013 at 9:19 am


Farage has always looked like a caricature of Blair to me.
 Steps taken forwards, but sleepwalking back again.
 http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/pinkfloyd/highhopes.html
 
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steviefinn

 May 4, 2013 at 9:19 am


All very ? Any port in a storm ?, unfortunately.
 
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groundedkiwi

 May 4, 2013 at 9:39 am


Its a small world after all :-) http://www.musictory.com/music/Pleasure+Forever/Any+Port+In+A+Storm
 
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wearedoomed

 May 4, 2013 at 11:16 am


@StevieF
 But surely that is the point? We are caught in a maelstrom of b####### and no-one else is offering safe harbour. UKip IMHO appears to be the ONLY port!
 Delighted for any Slogger to prove otherwise.
 WAD
 
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steviefinn

 May 4, 2013 at 12:29 pm


I understand ? If it were possible to prove the veracity of un-elected politicians pledges we wouldn?t be in the mess we are now. Appears is always a dangerous word & personally I think it hardly matters, they all have their strings pulled by the same people whatever colour of shite they wear.
 




aflatoxin

 May 4, 2013 at 2:12 pm


@stevieF ?they all have their strings pulled by the same people whatever colour of shite they wear.?
 
?would that it weren?t so.
 
However, one might just as well vote for UKIP on the 0.1% chance they actually keep their promise to give us a referendum on the EU. And if they didnt, there would be a lot of disenchanted supporters with breath fit to burn toast on the european issue such that the MSM would have difficulty in preventing the whole thing from getting a good airing.
 






EllieMae's grandad

 May 4, 2013 at 9:30 am


When all the main parties give us is sleaze and self-interest,
 UKIP will take us to where we should be ? freedom.
 
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M Davis

 May 4, 2013 at 9:38 am


Congratulations UKIP! Yes, you can!
 
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Phil S

 May 4, 2013 at 9:52 am


If we accept that UKIP policy is half formed then surely those people who have fresh ideas should be getting involved to create something that is vibrant and can drive the change required.

John, much of what you say is obviously true and looking at previous posts you are not telling people who read this blog something new. At least with something half formed there may be a chance to influence things. What are you suggesting that will instigate the change required?

What you would like to see, we know! How to credibly kick start the change, you have yet to make clear.
 
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Altergoman

 May 4, 2013 at 10:07 am


Although I have no British blood, I had rights to a British passport since birth I have always considered myself, I believe accurately, as not British despite being given citizenship some 50 plus years ago.
 
Why? Simply skin hue.
 
Because to strangers I look foreign, the question where do you come from has been asked of me too many times.
 
Why this explanation, well it goes some way to explain my observations re immigration in Britain (note I actually arrived in Britain in nov 1945).
 
I am an old geezer who has always been an outsider, observer.
 
Brits believe that their migration to other countries is at the very least ok if not very beneficial, without doubt to the recipient country.
 
They forget the numbers of Brits that leave for pastures new eg 750 K 1945 to 50, even 270,000 plus last year.
 
So UKIP most popular policy aim stop immigration would cause negative population growrh in Britain.
 
Given the UK?s over reliance on the consumerthis would no doubt cause negative GDP until and if the UK could reshape it?s economy, something that if achieved could take upwards of 20 years IMHO.
 
In addition it would change the supply demand equation on housing (and a revision to long term mean would involve much pain tohouse owners as prices would tumble).
 
Do people think introducing stronger entry requirements into Britain will not be met with tit for tat simalar restrictions for Brits wanting to travel abroad.
 
Britain was a leading pioneer of emmigration in the world and it is too late IMO to put the stopper in the immigration/emmigration bottle.
 
I do believe however that their must be effective visa monitoring on our borders and the sooner the love affair withe consumerism and built in obsolence is ended the better for the country.
 
But make no mistake the current UK business model requires high net immigration.
 
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Morningstar

 May 4, 2013 at 12:27 pm


I would suggest that you are wrong. The current immigration model needs to change. The welfare Ponzi is the driving force behind it, whereby the politicians keep trying to purchase voter support. More people requires more purchases ever onwards. The education model needs to change (back) into a model where business invest in the young to learn skills on the job rather than telling them they can do the job by giving them a wasted degree (and currently huge debts) and then forcing the employers to look abroad for REAL skilled people for the vacancies they produce.
 
It MUST be remembered that when you open up ?an equal opportunity? (in education) to everyone, the only way (unless you identify and segregate the brightest) that standards can move, is downwards to the lowest common denominator. You cannot educate someone without the ability, into being ?brainier? than they are. And sad though it might be, not everyone is as capable (at the same age even) of learning the same thing at the same speed. Having 5 slower pupils in a class where English is their second language will by necessity hold back (to whatever degree) the rest (even if only by way of the extra attention they require). This problem will feed through the entire schooling of the pupils involved.
 
Rather than the state ?lending? money to people to get a piece of paper, would it not be much more beneficial for employers to invest in the people they need and (whilst they still have the expertise) train the youngsters in the skills that these businesses demand which are currently imported through immigration ?
 
In short, there is never a requirement for immigration whilst a single person who is already here, exists, with the ability to learn (or do) a job which is required by an employer. But it is a lot cheaper for businesses to just import trained labour rather than invest in the training themselves. That the UK has such a poor education standard ensures that businesses cannot be sure of the calibre of the young in which they would have to make a selection to invest in??.. even degree holders are not reliable any more with so many being handed out that they are meaningless as a means of selection.
 
Ponzi pension schemes for the public sector, Ponzi welfare hand outs (just for pumping out a few kids) are a vote buying mechanism and of no benefit to the country whatsoever.
 
I could go on tearing apart the LibLabCon immigration fallacy propaganda for hours, ripping into the whys and wherefores of the issue. Suffice at the end to say, on housing alone, we do not have enough and for every new arrival the problem will become singularly worse.
 
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Mo

 May 4, 2013 at 12:46 pm


+10
 




M Davis

 May 4, 2013 at 1:06 pm


Hear, hear!
 




Me again

 May 4, 2013 at 1:09 pm


I have just posted the lines below on an American site which has done an article on the North American Union and open immigration. I think it is relevant to what Altergoman has posted.
 ?Open immigration would be fine if all countries were at the same economic level. But they aren?t and when you open the door it is usually the poorer people in the receiving state who are displaced and their wages undercut.
 
We have this in the European Union. They think they are socialists in Brussels, many are former communists including Barosso himself but they are being ?useful idiots? to the globalists.
 
They provide a stream of countries which can be broken down by mass immigration, and then partially re-built to the level that the globalists want in their first world, second world, third world system.
 
In the UK we have had successive waves of immigration from inside the EU and from outside. This is a destructive and deliberate policy brought in by the Blair government in 1997 and now it is almost unstoppable. I do not lay blame on those that come here from the EU because they are merely using the system that is in place but its effects on this country are dreadful. We are no longer a rich nation but actually in decline and these influxes are the straw that broke the camel?s back. We have had between 3 and 7 million immigrants arrive, at a rate of a thousand a day and we can do nothing to stop it because of the EU.
 
When you get your NAU it will be above criticism because it operates above government level, national politicians become puppets. A recent example was when the leaders of UK, Germany, Austria and Netherlands wrote to the Commission [the EU's actual rulers] asking for countries to be able to restrict benefits for incoming immigrants in order to avoid ?Benefit Tourism?[why be on low paid work in Poland when you can come to the UK get a house and get money to live to a much higher standard?] The EU commission said actually we are going to make it easier for people to claim benefits and we will not allow a time limits before they can claim!
 
So national politicians are irrelevant in the super-state, Even the ones paying the Lion?s share of the money to be in the club aka Germany and UK.
 
I implore you not to import to the Americas the same ?soviet? system that we now have in Europe. If you think I am exaggerating then here is a quote from a man who knows all about the old soviet system.
 
?The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.?
 Mikhail Gorbachev
 
My personal view is that he was really annoyed because the West had spent 50 years taking down his soviet system, and there they were building a new one 1500 mile west of the old one. Just compare the hierarchy all they?ve changed are the names of the organisational sub units.
 
Worst of all this is going to lead to violence and civil war as the system -which is plainly broken now- starts to fall apart and the leaders of the ?projekt? becomne ever more desperate.
 
America be warned!
 




MaxC

 May 4, 2013 at 2:07 pm


Yes, there are many countries you cannot immigrate into unless you are offering a skill that is not being supplied internally.
 Cross-border mobility is another EU doctrinaire policy which is either pointless, devious or daft. It?s obvious aim is to make us all vanilla flavoured, dull Europeans. And it doesn?t work.
 




Hazel

 May 4, 2013 at 2:56 pm


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